1. Seaside does not “consistently ignore” SPort. Check out our [url=]LGPL repository[/url] there you’ll find a partial implentation of Seaside using SPort. Partial because it implements only what is possible with SPort. We sent a list to Bruce with the stuff that is missing.
    However, when we need something, we need it now. We can not wait for a committee and synch with release cycles of vendors.

  2. I did not try to point a finger at anyone in particular, Philippe, and I certainly am in a position to understand your need to move forward without having to wait for a committee. But in a sense your response perfectly illustrates the trap I write about. My attempt was to find a way out of this, and I would be very interested in your comments on that.

  3. “base Smalltalk syntax and metalevel definitions, should be placed under the umbrella of a small, preferable community-driven, group. Squeak had this group for a while, Squeak Central, with recognised leaders like Alan Kay and Dan Ingalls. ”
    And have you check the state of Squeak. Take 3.8 and check the code?…
    “and this should have been a sign on the wall, STIC has been stubbornly ignored by the Smalltalk community as a whole ”
    Where was STIC since 1996?
    Never saw it doing soemthing…
    Now companies do what they can…
    Imagine Cincom led Eliot Miranda building a free fast Virtual Machine that will compete with them. Now if they would open-source VisualWorks we could kill all their competitors in one shot.

  4. I agree with your call for better unity and kind of leadership for a whole Smalltalk world and I think we the web guys from Seaside and Aida community are already slowly but surely pushing in that direction, by asking for better portability between dialects. There are also more and more commercial interests pushing that way too. Comparing to several years ago I see a progress here, kind of concertation, which is “automatic” and demand driven.
    About some small group driven concertation of Smalltalk world, well, this is harder to achieve and experiences from Squeak for instance are not very encouraging. Here a fork (Pharo) with a strong leader is actually doing a breakthrough out of kind of paralysis, also because Pharo is starting to attract others from Squeak community as well. I have a feeling that this push will at the end push a whole Smalltalk community forward and that’s good. Not to mention another push on VM front by Eliot Miranda and multi-core Smalltalk by Igor Stasenko, well, Smalltalk world seems actually wonderful in the future 🙂

  5. If Cincom open sourced VW and/or ObjectStudio, we would be laying off the engineering team within a few months. I simply don’t see a business model that supports what we do coming out of a fully open source model.

  6. Oh, and as to STIC: STIC is (or is not) what the community makes it. Right now, STIC has the resources to host Smalltalk Solutions annually. LOts of people complain about STIC, but nothing will change unless people become individual members and start contributing effort.

  7. STIC is – or is not – what the community makes it. Right now, STIC has the resources to put on Smalltalk Solutions once a year. If you want to change that, join and start making noise.

  8. Please understand me correctly: I do not intend to devaluate or derogate STIC. I merely notice that STIC has been “consistently ignored”. I certainly do not consider that a good thing but a symptom of the Smalltalk Trap. This should change, surely, and I would like to invite a discussion on the how. I am afraid that “join and start making noise” may not work unless some other preconditions change, and I have made an attempt to analyse that in the article.

  9. I think Java succeeded, because it innovated as little as possible. When it came to syntax this was a bad idea, but when it came to the GUI (=Swing) it was (IMHO) a good thing. While I love a lot about Smalltalk, last I checked out Squeak I was really put off by the strange GUI (and, if I recall correctly, the lack of any kind of modularity construct). Thus, even though Squeak was great in a lot of ways, the GUI kept me from using it (let alone from making end users of my programs having to figure out the GUI). Even between Windows, Mac, and Linux, GUIs are fairly standardized and it would be great if Squeak could follow that standard.

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